In the Bible, God occasionally refers to Himself using plural terms like "We" or "Us" (e.g., Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7). This seems to suggest that God exists as multiple Persons, supporting the doctrine of the Trinity. An alternative explanation holds that the majestic plural is being used in these passages. Is there sufficient biblical evidence to warrant this claim? Thanks!
Responses (3)
You find evidence by studying the bible. It is not reliable to ask opinions of others.
I agree; I want the Bible, not man's opinions. However, maybe you could show me the way as to where the majestic plural is used in the Bible. Are there any clear passages showing the majestic plural to have been used in Bible times?
You are talking about searching Hebrew text for plurals. I have no training in Hebrew.
Colossians 1:15,16 He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.
Jesus was there in his prehuman existence with his Father.
Proverbs 8:22-31 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. From ancient times I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. When there was no deep waters, I was brought forth, when there were no springs overflowing with water. Before the mountains were set in place, before the hills, I was brought forth, when he had not yet made the earth and it's fields or the first clods of earth 's soil. When he prepared the heavens, I was there; when he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters, when he established the clouds above, when he founded the fountains deep, when he set the decree for the sea that its waters should not pass beyond his order, when he established the foundations of the earth, then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day. I rejoiced before him all the time; I rejoiced over his inhabited earth, and I was especially fond of the sons of men.
[quote]
Colossians 1:15,16 He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him.
Jesus was there in his prehuman existence with his Father.
[/quote]
Colossians 1:15-16 King James Version (KJV)
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
You really need to learn how to study the bible. You only need five books to study the bible:
1. A King James bible. Other versions are ok, but the KJV has been stable for 400 years and the others have not, and all the research is keyed to the KJV.
2. An English dictionary.
3. An Interlinear Greek-English Translation Of The New Testament, any brand.
4. An exhaustive concordance. There are several brands, but everybody seems to use Strong's. I like Young's because it is easier to use.
5. A Hebrew lexicon, if you study the old testament.
A concordance reveals that the word 'image' is Greek ikon. Anybody who uses a computer knows what an icon is. The icon is not the program, but when you click the icon you get all the power of the program. The Greek word specifically means the image on a signet ring, which is what they used to sign checks and laws and stuff.
In verse 16 the word 'by' is Greek en, which is a general purpose word that might be translated by, for, in, from, or a few other ways. It certainly does not say that Jesus created anything. The bible uses many names for God, but it is never so sloppy as to use one name when it means another. Genesis 1:1 specifically says Elohim created the heavens and the earth, not Jehova, not Lord of hosts, not El Shaddai, and not Jesus. It's like your daddy is the sheriff and also runs a grocery store. You might want to talk to your daddy but not the sheriff or the grocer.
"all things were created by him, and for him:" The word 'him' is a pronoun. It refers to the last, preceding, qualified noun. As I just explained, all creation was done by Elohim, not Jesus, so the first "him" refers to Elohim, not Jesus. The second "him" refers to Jesus, as the entire bible explains. The first prophecy of the savior is Genesis 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." All babies are referred to as a man's seed, except Jesus because he was conceived without a man's seed. Notice that at this time the savior is not called "he", only "it". Because "it" did not exist yet.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
The trinity doctrine contradicts those verses. That is why churches that teach the trinity discourage studying the bible, declaring that church tradition is of higher authority than the word of God.
The bible shows in Genesis, being made in God's image, humans have the capacity to reflect Godly attributes. Surely we should try to cultivate such qualities as love, mercy, kindness, goodness, and patience, reflecting the One who made us. Yes Genesis 1:26 made it clear that that us refers to God and Jesus. The bible refer to Jesus as God's master worker and his spokes man. Jesus was God's first Creation. God created Jesus by himself. After God created Jesus, everything that God created after him, Jesus was a part of that creation. That's why Jesus was refer to as God's master worker or spokes man, hence is the reason why God uses we or us when speaking in certain verses.
Lol, but is there even any clear passages showing the majestic plural to have been used in Bible times? Unless there's sufficient evidence that this existed at the time, "We are not amused!" Lol.